Post by Plant Man on Oct 22, 2007 17:33:08 GMT -5
www.standingthegap.org/robertson.htm
In the Belly of the Beast!
Pat Robertson on eternal security:
CBN.com - The phrase "once saved, always saved" is not found in the Bible. Our salvation is past, present, and future. That implies a continuous relationship and an unfolding process rather than a fixed state. The person who has given himself or herself to Jesus Christ and has truly repented from sin can find repeated assurances of the eternal covenant given to His people by a God who cannot lie. The Bible tells us that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (see Romans 11:29). The work of Jesus Christ is eternal. It will never be revoked. Apart from the Bible, the greatest assurance any Christian has of eternal security is the day-by-day witness of the Holy Spirit in his life that he is a child of God and the fact that day-by-day he is becoming more like Jesus.
The Bible teaches security in the Holy Spirit and in the things of God. Jesus said, "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand" (John 10:29). So we are secure in the hand of God, and we are to rest secure in the Lord. God has put His Spirit within us; He has given His Word to us. Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God, constantly making intercession on our behalf; (see Hebrews 7:25) and God has sent angels to watch over us (see Hebrews 1:14). In other words, we are surrounded by tremendous helps. We should constantly remind ourselves that we are secure, that God loves us, and that we belong to Him.
The reason we are saved is not because we are holy or do good works, but because of the blood of Jesus. Salvation comes through faith, and it stays because of faith. So we should have a feeling of security. But, at the same time, there should be a healthy fear of falling. We should not presume on God and say, "I am saved, so I can do anything I want to." Paul condemned people who were teaching that a person could sin boldly so that God's grace could abound (see Romans 6:1-2). If we truly are dead to sin, then we are not going to live in sin any longer, but we will aim to serve God.
We should walk with reverence, because God is a consuming fire, a very awesome Being (see Hebrews 12:29). I would not counsel anybody to presume on God because of a doctrine of eternal security. Anybody who says, "I believe that once I am saved, I am always saved, so I am going to go out and commit adultery and steal and lie and cheat and rob," is being very foolish. If somebody really loves God, those things would not be present in his life.
I have walked with God for nearly thirty years, and for the last twenty-five years or so, I have never even thought about the possibility of losing my salvation. It just is not a reality for me at all. The reason is that I live for the Lord. The thought of doing otherwise just does not occur to me. Do I commit acts of sin? Yes. Do I fail God? Yes. Are there things I should do that I do not do? Yes. I need the cleansing forgiveness of the Lord constantly. My concern is that I realize God's purpose for my life and that I do not fall short of what He intends for me. But as far as losing my salvation, it just does not come up for me, nor should it for any sincere Christian.
Rebuttal:
The 'Continuous' relationship he is speaking of exists ONLY for those who are STEADFAST in the faith, Rom2:7. No where does scripture imply that our future sins are forgiven 'before' we commit them. The foreknowledge of God is NOT predestination. If it were impossible for a truly converted person to never fall away from the faith, as Robertson implies, why then does scripture constantly warn us to Remain Steadfast, Hold fast and Continue in the faith? (1Cor15:2, Heb3:14, Col1:23) Throughout the Gospel Jesus is speaking of a PRESENT tense salvation, John3:16, "He who is NOW believing & CONTINUES to do so, shall inherit eternal life." In the original language of the Bible the Present Action is stressed when rendering the action. In other words, John10:27-28 is NOT a promise of eternal security without conditions, as many seem to believe. Rather it is saying that "MY sheep who are NOW hearing My voice & NOW following Me, have eternal life & no one can unexpectedly snatch them out of My hand!" In the original context this it NOT saying that you can 'continue' in known & willful sin and remain secure in Christ. Just the opposite. Such verses as John3:36, & 1John5:13 make this contextual meaning clear. Jn3:36 "He who OBEYS not the Son, shall not see life!" , 1Jh5:13 "These things I have written to you who believe in the Son, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life & that you may CONTINUE to believe."
The Gifts & the calling of God may be irrevocable, but look again at the CONTEXT in which this promise is given, Rom11:11-36. Verse 22: "Therefore consider the goodness & the severity of God, on those who fell severity, but toward you goodness, IF YOU CONTINUE in His goodness. Otherwise you ALSO will be CUT off." I really don't know how it could be any more crystal clear than this. Short of asking the Apostle Paul himself whether salvation can be lost through sin, this states unequivocally you will INDEED be CUT off if you fail to continue in the faith. Now think about verse 29. Can God lie? His Gift & offer of Salvation to mankind cannot be revoked, but that doesn't mean it's an Un-Conditional promise of eternal life no matter what you do. (see the difference?) The osas preachers are lairs. Mis-leading you into hell fire!
Jesus is able to SAVE to the utter most those who come to God through Him, Heb7:25, because of what it states in the CONTEXT of chapter 7. He 'continues' as a Priest forever, unchangeable, offering the 'better' covenant. (because he died & rose again!) WHERE is the promise that you are saved forever no matter what you do? Throughout the entire book of Hebrews the Apostle issues warning after warning. "Be diligent to enter, lest you fall after the same example of disobedience!" Heb4:11 "Show the same diligence to the FULL assurance of the hope until the end. DO NOT become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith & STEADFAST endurance inherit the promise!" Heb6:11-12 "Therefore DO NOT cast away your confidence which has great reward. For you have need of STEADFAST endurance, so that after you have DONE the will of God, you may inherit the promise!" Heb10:35-36 Now who's telling you the truth? The lying osas preachers or the Scriptures written by God Himself?
Correct we 'Saved' NOT by any righteous deeds of our own, BUT we STAY saved by remaining Diligent & Steadfast in the faith. NOTHING could be more plain in scripture. Even Abraham of whom Rom4:3 says, "He believed God & it was accounted to him for righteousness." DID NOT remain passive afterward. NO! Scripture goes on to state that he was not WEAK in faith, he did not waver through unfaithfulness, he ENDURED and was fully convinced that God would deliver him. THEN it was accounted to him for righteousness! Rom4:19-21 Part of the responsibility rests with man, to CLEANSE himself, KEEP himself Pure, Guard his heart, and CONTINUE in the faith! (2Cor7:1, 1Tim5:22, 1Pet1:22, Heb3:14) And again in Hebrew11:8 it says Abraham OBEYED God and went forth to inherit the promise. By faith, you MUST go forth with God to inherit the promise of eternal life. If you remain in sin, do not cleanse your heart, walk in purity and guard yourself from the pitfalls of satan, you WILL indeed be defiled by the flesh and end up in hell....even if you ONCE believed & received Christ. The lie of osas makes it natural to drop your guard and become complacent about sin. "Why not indulge the flesh if nothing I do matters?" Under osas there is no reverent fear of God or deep felt desire to WALK in newness of life, Put on the New man or take up the Cross. It become optional because there's no penalty if I don't!
Notice how he says that eternal security doesn't mean you can go out and do anything you want and remain saved....they ALL tell you this. AND then turn right around and say what's in the very next paragraph. "No body's perfect! We all sin everyday, everyone falls short of God's commands, but GRACE keeps you!" HOGWASH!!! This is like saying that Christians can't be trusted, they LUST for everything and everybody, Lie, cheat, steal & commit acts of immoral behavior! What's the difference??? IF the PURPOSE of the COMMANDANT is not LOVE & HEART PURITY, 1Tim1:5, then WHAT is it? If Grace is not the Divine Power of God to CLEANSE the Heart from the corrupting influence of sin, 2Pet1:4, is a LIE! And if man remains in the exact same wretched condition he was when found by Christ, WHY get 'saved' in the first place? So you can have a 'form' of godliness and a phony self-assurance. DON'T tell me that anyone living in daily defilement of flesh has any divine assurance from God that he is saved by Grace. The WORKS of the flesh are evident, Gal5:19-21, read them, THEY DESCRIBE today's churches in a nutshell...immorality, lust, uncleanness, evil behavior, self-seeking, jealousy, contentions, strife, gossip, adultery, hatred...NAME it! WHERE are those who have CRUCIFIED the flesh with it's passions and desires? Gal5:24. WHO is putting to death the deeds of the body by the Power of the Spirit so that he will LIVE? Rom8:13 And WHERE is this NEW CREATION spoken of by God, 2Cor5:17, with the OLD THINGS past away and the NEW THINGS come? The lie of osas has deceived millions and every where you turn it is being taught and held forth as the Gospel. Your ONLY hope is to turn away from these smooth talking preachers to the TRUTH of God's WORD & Seek Him until He is revealed.
Lying Signs and Wonders!
This weekend's catastrophic earthquake in South Asia in the wake of recent U.S. hurricanes and December's tsunami is catching the eye of televangelist Pat Robertson, who says we "might be" in the End Times described in the Bible. "These things are starting to hit with amazing regularity," Robertson said on CNN's "Late Edition."
Robertson, a former GOP presidential candidate and host of the "700 Club" daily Christian TV show, noted, "If you read back in the Bible, the letter of the apostle Paul to the church of Thessalonia, he said that in the latter days before the end of the age that the Earth would be caught up in what he called the birth pangs of a new order. And for anybody who knows what it's like to have a wife going into labor, you know how these labor pains begin to hit. I don't have any special word that says this is that, but it could be suspiciously like that."
"What was called the blessed hope of the Bible is that one day Jesus Christ would come back again, start a whole new era, that this world order that we know would change into something that would be wonderful that we'd call the millennium," he continued. "And before that good time comes there will be some difficult days and there will be likened to what a woman goes through in labor just before she brings forth a child."
When asked if the world was approaching that moment, Robertson said, "It's possible. I don't have any special revelation to say it is but the Bible does indicate such a time will happen in the end of time. And could this be it? It might be." Hurricane Katrina left more than 1,200 people dead in the Gulf Coast region of the U.S., while the rising death toll from this weekend's earthquake in Pakistan, Afghanistan and India is in the 20,000 to 30,000 range thus far. On Dec. 26, an estimated 275,000 people lost their lives from a tsunami sparked by an undersea earthquake in the Indian Ocean. Some New Testament verses often cited by Christians regarding signs of the end of this present age before the return of Jesus to Earth include:
"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows." (Matthew 24:7-8)
"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;" (Luke 21:25).
Robertson isn't the only one raising the End Times issue, as author and WorldNetDaily columnist Hal Lindsey has weighed in.
"It seems clear that the prophetic times I have been expecting for decades have finally arrived. And even worse, it appears that the judgment of America has begun," Lindsey said on the Sept. 9 broadcast of the "International Intelligence Briefing" on the Trinity Broadcasting Network. "I warn continually that the last days lineup of world powers does not include anything resembling the United States of America. Instead, a revived Roman Empire in Europe is to rule the West, and then the world. "
The so-called 'charismatic' crowd loves to prophec modern events compared to Biblical Prophecy. But it's just MORE of the 'Blind leading the blind!' How could any of these apostate preachers have a 'special' insight into things of prophecy, when they don't understand the MOST Basic concepts of salvation and faith? NOTHING they say can be trusted as reliable. As the religious leaders in Jesus' time, they have MISSED the point! NONE of them recognized Jesus as the Messiah of Old Testament prophecy, even though they were in possession of the VERY Scriptures that revealed His Coming. The SAME is true today. These lying preachers, selling you a 'user friendly,' sin your way to heaven gospel, are of the same elk as the Pharisees who crucified the Lord of Glory. Interrupting global events in light of Bible Prophecy is just another way of adding to the bottom line. They have created an entire industry for books, tapes, movies, ect, and the modern church loves it! They sit waiting to be Raptured away while Judgment is lurking at the doors!
Quoting half verses and out of Context passages, Robertson attempts to prove his point, that we are in the 'end times' and the return of Christ is right around the corner. But as the Old Testament Prophet said, "Woe to you who desire the Day of the Lord! For what good is the Day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness and not light." Amos5:18.
While he sits on his Mountain of Wealth and worldly power, he arrogantly draws MANY into his web of deceit. Enjoy it Now, because when the Lord DOES Return, their will be HELL to pay....
In the Belly of the Beast!
Pat Robertson on eternal security:
CBN.com - The phrase "once saved, always saved" is not found in the Bible. Our salvation is past, present, and future. That implies a continuous relationship and an unfolding process rather than a fixed state. The person who has given himself or herself to Jesus Christ and has truly repented from sin can find repeated assurances of the eternal covenant given to His people by a God who cannot lie. The Bible tells us that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (see Romans 11:29). The work of Jesus Christ is eternal. It will never be revoked. Apart from the Bible, the greatest assurance any Christian has of eternal security is the day-by-day witness of the Holy Spirit in his life that he is a child of God and the fact that day-by-day he is becoming more like Jesus.
The Bible teaches security in the Holy Spirit and in the things of God. Jesus said, "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand" (John 10:29). So we are secure in the hand of God, and we are to rest secure in the Lord. God has put His Spirit within us; He has given His Word to us. Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God, constantly making intercession on our behalf; (see Hebrews 7:25) and God has sent angels to watch over us (see Hebrews 1:14). In other words, we are surrounded by tremendous helps. We should constantly remind ourselves that we are secure, that God loves us, and that we belong to Him.
The reason we are saved is not because we are holy or do good works, but because of the blood of Jesus. Salvation comes through faith, and it stays because of faith. So we should have a feeling of security. But, at the same time, there should be a healthy fear of falling. We should not presume on God and say, "I am saved, so I can do anything I want to." Paul condemned people who were teaching that a person could sin boldly so that God's grace could abound (see Romans 6:1-2). If we truly are dead to sin, then we are not going to live in sin any longer, but we will aim to serve God.
We should walk with reverence, because God is a consuming fire, a very awesome Being (see Hebrews 12:29). I would not counsel anybody to presume on God because of a doctrine of eternal security. Anybody who says, "I believe that once I am saved, I am always saved, so I am going to go out and commit adultery and steal and lie and cheat and rob," is being very foolish. If somebody really loves God, those things would not be present in his life.
I have walked with God for nearly thirty years, and for the last twenty-five years or so, I have never even thought about the possibility of losing my salvation. It just is not a reality for me at all. The reason is that I live for the Lord. The thought of doing otherwise just does not occur to me. Do I commit acts of sin? Yes. Do I fail God? Yes. Are there things I should do that I do not do? Yes. I need the cleansing forgiveness of the Lord constantly. My concern is that I realize God's purpose for my life and that I do not fall short of what He intends for me. But as far as losing my salvation, it just does not come up for me, nor should it for any sincere Christian.
Rebuttal:
The 'Continuous' relationship he is speaking of exists ONLY for those who are STEADFAST in the faith, Rom2:7. No where does scripture imply that our future sins are forgiven 'before' we commit them. The foreknowledge of God is NOT predestination. If it were impossible for a truly converted person to never fall away from the faith, as Robertson implies, why then does scripture constantly warn us to Remain Steadfast, Hold fast and Continue in the faith? (1Cor15:2, Heb3:14, Col1:23) Throughout the Gospel Jesus is speaking of a PRESENT tense salvation, John3:16, "He who is NOW believing & CONTINUES to do so, shall inherit eternal life." In the original language of the Bible the Present Action is stressed when rendering the action. In other words, John10:27-28 is NOT a promise of eternal security without conditions, as many seem to believe. Rather it is saying that "MY sheep who are NOW hearing My voice & NOW following Me, have eternal life & no one can unexpectedly snatch them out of My hand!" In the original context this it NOT saying that you can 'continue' in known & willful sin and remain secure in Christ. Just the opposite. Such verses as John3:36, & 1John5:13 make this contextual meaning clear. Jn3:36 "He who OBEYS not the Son, shall not see life!" , 1Jh5:13 "These things I have written to you who believe in the Son, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life & that you may CONTINUE to believe."
The Gifts & the calling of God may be irrevocable, but look again at the CONTEXT in which this promise is given, Rom11:11-36. Verse 22: "Therefore consider the goodness & the severity of God, on those who fell severity, but toward you goodness, IF YOU CONTINUE in His goodness. Otherwise you ALSO will be CUT off." I really don't know how it could be any more crystal clear than this. Short of asking the Apostle Paul himself whether salvation can be lost through sin, this states unequivocally you will INDEED be CUT off if you fail to continue in the faith. Now think about verse 29. Can God lie? His Gift & offer of Salvation to mankind cannot be revoked, but that doesn't mean it's an Un-Conditional promise of eternal life no matter what you do. (see the difference?) The osas preachers are lairs. Mis-leading you into hell fire!
Jesus is able to SAVE to the utter most those who come to God through Him, Heb7:25, because of what it states in the CONTEXT of chapter 7. He 'continues' as a Priest forever, unchangeable, offering the 'better' covenant. (because he died & rose again!) WHERE is the promise that you are saved forever no matter what you do? Throughout the entire book of Hebrews the Apostle issues warning after warning. "Be diligent to enter, lest you fall after the same example of disobedience!" Heb4:11 "Show the same diligence to the FULL assurance of the hope until the end. DO NOT become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith & STEADFAST endurance inherit the promise!" Heb6:11-12 "Therefore DO NOT cast away your confidence which has great reward. For you have need of STEADFAST endurance, so that after you have DONE the will of God, you may inherit the promise!" Heb10:35-36 Now who's telling you the truth? The lying osas preachers or the Scriptures written by God Himself?
Correct we 'Saved' NOT by any righteous deeds of our own, BUT we STAY saved by remaining Diligent & Steadfast in the faith. NOTHING could be more plain in scripture. Even Abraham of whom Rom4:3 says, "He believed God & it was accounted to him for righteousness." DID NOT remain passive afterward. NO! Scripture goes on to state that he was not WEAK in faith, he did not waver through unfaithfulness, he ENDURED and was fully convinced that God would deliver him. THEN it was accounted to him for righteousness! Rom4:19-21 Part of the responsibility rests with man, to CLEANSE himself, KEEP himself Pure, Guard his heart, and CONTINUE in the faith! (2Cor7:1, 1Tim5:22, 1Pet1:22, Heb3:14) And again in Hebrew11:8 it says Abraham OBEYED God and went forth to inherit the promise. By faith, you MUST go forth with God to inherit the promise of eternal life. If you remain in sin, do not cleanse your heart, walk in purity and guard yourself from the pitfalls of satan, you WILL indeed be defiled by the flesh and end up in hell....even if you ONCE believed & received Christ. The lie of osas makes it natural to drop your guard and become complacent about sin. "Why not indulge the flesh if nothing I do matters?" Under osas there is no reverent fear of God or deep felt desire to WALK in newness of life, Put on the New man or take up the Cross. It become optional because there's no penalty if I don't!
Notice how he says that eternal security doesn't mean you can go out and do anything you want and remain saved....they ALL tell you this. AND then turn right around and say what's in the very next paragraph. "No body's perfect! We all sin everyday, everyone falls short of God's commands, but GRACE keeps you!" HOGWASH!!! This is like saying that Christians can't be trusted, they LUST for everything and everybody, Lie, cheat, steal & commit acts of immoral behavior! What's the difference??? IF the PURPOSE of the COMMANDANT is not LOVE & HEART PURITY, 1Tim1:5, then WHAT is it? If Grace is not the Divine Power of God to CLEANSE the Heart from the corrupting influence of sin, 2Pet1:4, is a LIE! And if man remains in the exact same wretched condition he was when found by Christ, WHY get 'saved' in the first place? So you can have a 'form' of godliness and a phony self-assurance. DON'T tell me that anyone living in daily defilement of flesh has any divine assurance from God that he is saved by Grace. The WORKS of the flesh are evident, Gal5:19-21, read them, THEY DESCRIBE today's churches in a nutshell...immorality, lust, uncleanness, evil behavior, self-seeking, jealousy, contentions, strife, gossip, adultery, hatred...NAME it! WHERE are those who have CRUCIFIED the flesh with it's passions and desires? Gal5:24. WHO is putting to death the deeds of the body by the Power of the Spirit so that he will LIVE? Rom8:13 And WHERE is this NEW CREATION spoken of by God, 2Cor5:17, with the OLD THINGS past away and the NEW THINGS come? The lie of osas has deceived millions and every where you turn it is being taught and held forth as the Gospel. Your ONLY hope is to turn away from these smooth talking preachers to the TRUTH of God's WORD & Seek Him until He is revealed.
Lying Signs and Wonders!
This weekend's catastrophic earthquake in South Asia in the wake of recent U.S. hurricanes and December's tsunami is catching the eye of televangelist Pat Robertson, who says we "might be" in the End Times described in the Bible. "These things are starting to hit with amazing regularity," Robertson said on CNN's "Late Edition."
Robertson, a former GOP presidential candidate and host of the "700 Club" daily Christian TV show, noted, "If you read back in the Bible, the letter of the apostle Paul to the church of Thessalonia, he said that in the latter days before the end of the age that the Earth would be caught up in what he called the birth pangs of a new order. And for anybody who knows what it's like to have a wife going into labor, you know how these labor pains begin to hit. I don't have any special word that says this is that, but it could be suspiciously like that."
"What was called the blessed hope of the Bible is that one day Jesus Christ would come back again, start a whole new era, that this world order that we know would change into something that would be wonderful that we'd call the millennium," he continued. "And before that good time comes there will be some difficult days and there will be likened to what a woman goes through in labor just before she brings forth a child."
When asked if the world was approaching that moment, Robertson said, "It's possible. I don't have any special revelation to say it is but the Bible does indicate such a time will happen in the end of time. And could this be it? It might be." Hurricane Katrina left more than 1,200 people dead in the Gulf Coast region of the U.S., while the rising death toll from this weekend's earthquake in Pakistan, Afghanistan and India is in the 20,000 to 30,000 range thus far. On Dec. 26, an estimated 275,000 people lost their lives from a tsunami sparked by an undersea earthquake in the Indian Ocean. Some New Testament verses often cited by Christians regarding signs of the end of this present age before the return of Jesus to Earth include:
"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows." (Matthew 24:7-8)
"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;" (Luke 21:25).
Robertson isn't the only one raising the End Times issue, as author and WorldNetDaily columnist Hal Lindsey has weighed in.
"It seems clear that the prophetic times I have been expecting for decades have finally arrived. And even worse, it appears that the judgment of America has begun," Lindsey said on the Sept. 9 broadcast of the "International Intelligence Briefing" on the Trinity Broadcasting Network. "I warn continually that the last days lineup of world powers does not include anything resembling the United States of America. Instead, a revived Roman Empire in Europe is to rule the West, and then the world. "
The so-called 'charismatic' crowd loves to prophec modern events compared to Biblical Prophecy. But it's just MORE of the 'Blind leading the blind!' How could any of these apostate preachers have a 'special' insight into things of prophecy, when they don't understand the MOST Basic concepts of salvation and faith? NOTHING they say can be trusted as reliable. As the religious leaders in Jesus' time, they have MISSED the point! NONE of them recognized Jesus as the Messiah of Old Testament prophecy, even though they were in possession of the VERY Scriptures that revealed His Coming. The SAME is true today. These lying preachers, selling you a 'user friendly,' sin your way to heaven gospel, are of the same elk as the Pharisees who crucified the Lord of Glory. Interrupting global events in light of Bible Prophecy is just another way of adding to the bottom line. They have created an entire industry for books, tapes, movies, ect, and the modern church loves it! They sit waiting to be Raptured away while Judgment is lurking at the doors!
Quoting half verses and out of Context passages, Robertson attempts to prove his point, that we are in the 'end times' and the return of Christ is right around the corner. But as the Old Testament Prophet said, "Woe to you who desire the Day of the Lord! For what good is the Day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness and not light." Amos5:18.
While he sits on his Mountain of Wealth and worldly power, he arrogantly draws MANY into his web of deceit. Enjoy it Now, because when the Lord DOES Return, their will be HELL to pay....